Staying Clean WITHOUT AA!

[ratch]

Hey everyone,

Subsux has always been a "detox" site and I have always stayed as far away from the term "recovery" as I could, due to many factors.

The term "being in recovery" has always been associated with AA/NA. They claim that unless you go to meetings, buy into the fact that a "higher power' will help you stay clean, get a sponsor, do the 12 steps, go to meetings.. and if you don't do these things you are a relapse waiting to happen.

The term "sober" is also associated with 12 step programs. in their definition, being sober means that you are free from ALL drugs and alcohol, and are "working the program". If you just stay abstinent from drugs and alcohol and dont work any program.. they will call you "Dry" like a "Dry Drunk" or a "Dry Druggie" and they claim that you will be miserable and bitter if you don't work a 12 step program in tandem.

Here at Subsux we use the term "clean" loosely, in a nutshell it means you are not fucking up with drugs anymore.
Clean means you are off all opioids, including sub or methadone. Your not taking any drugs to get high, wasted, or fucked up. If you have a occasional beer, or smoke a joint socially... thats called NORMAL and you are still clean in our warped little world. If you are reading this, chances are you know exactly what addiction is, and you know what drugs brought you to your knees... stay away from the bad stuff! And if you ever had a prior problem or dependency issue with alcohol or pot.. stay away from them too.


If you are a active member of a 12 step program and you are happy, or you find this type of talk "offensive". Please take the time to read your 12 Traditions carefully before you start making any comments on outside opinions or issues.

I am not starting this section of the forum to bash the 12 step "way of life".. But to show people that there are viable alternatives to AA/NA.. And not only can addcits get and stay clean, and be happy. But they dont necessarily have to remain 100% abstinent from all substances either. if they never had any prior problems or issues, and they can establish moderation from substances that they are not geared for physically.

Some people are born alcoholics and the second they have that first drink they are off to the races, other people can establish a addiction/dependency to alcohol over time. Many addicts have actually never really enjoyed alcohol which is why we turned to drugs!

I am NOT writing a paragraph on why I hate AA/NA to undermine or bash "their" program..but guess what?
AA is NOT my program, and the last time I checked this is still MY website and I can pretty much say and do whatever the fuck I want. I've been clean and remained that way for long enough to find something ELSE that works for me, and that I am comfortable with. This section is going to be for people WHO ARE NOT IN AA, have no plans on joining AA, and want to seek alternatives..or nothing at all.

If AA/NA is working for you, there is really no reason to be in this section of the forum anyhow. If people staying clean without AA/NA really disturbs you that much, call your sponsor and tell them you need to rework a 4th and 5th step again because you are harboring resentments towards people who are seeking alternative ways of staying clean. Then take a 6th step and get some winning lottery numbers, and while you are on the phone with God.. ask him why so many people in Japan just died, but you were able to pick up another chip/keytag.

Sorry for being so cold, soulless, and blasphemous. But the irony is overwhelming.

[cheeps]

Damn that was satisfying to read ...almost as good as making and eating homemade cookies.

[sissymitchie]

ughhhhhhhh!!! thats all i have to say.

[CaptainCake]

Hahahaha.

It's been so long...man. I almost want to get into a fight on ODR with Arlene just for nostalgia's sake and literally no other reason. Fucking AA, man.

*shakes head*

[xenofears]

You missed the AA fun with Sam Bailey, and Bonita got mad and hasn't been back since.

[CaptainCake]

Yeah, I don't do the whole "AA" arguing anymore. I used to get so upset at the "preachers" who invaded ODR and I've lost a few friends who converted to the great brainwashing, but such is life. I mean...on BOTH sides it's basically:



Y'know? Anyone asks me what I think about 12-step programs these days I just tell 'em to youtube Penn & Teller's episode of "Bullshit" on the subject. Nothing more really needs to be said about it.

[SoCal]

IM GONNA TRY FISHIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TT

[nootlsjr]

thanks ratch, and xeno for this/these sites, not everything is for everybody, but listning to a bunch of dope feens tell there war story/s doesnt help me, it makes me think of my story when relating, and thats promoting bad thoughts, and even the site of a bunch of dope feens is a trigger, its just a certain personality, attitude they/i have that makes me want to get high, or i will pity them/someone and get depressed and want to use, was forced by courts to rehabs and meetings, and did my share of listning.lol. now its time to man up and live a respectful life, simple as that. i do know some people meetings help. so, good for them, it doesnt matter how you do it, as long as your doing it.

[Sub zero]

The best "roasting" I've ever heard AA get was on an episode of "Dark Angel" when actor John Savage's character "Don Leydecker" goes to a meeting and takes the podium. After the obligatory "Hi my name's and I'm an alcoholic...followed by his story"...he says "I'm new in town. I have some business here and I've been coming to this meeting for the last couple weeks. I've listened to a few of you stand up and tell your stories and tonight, I'd like to take my turn. Drinking damn near destroyed my life. I woke up one morning, took a look around… I was lying on the floor. I decided never to touch another drop. I've been sober ever since. I hear a lot of you talk about taking things one day at a time. As far as I'm concerned, that's a cop-out. You make a decision and you take charge of your life. You don't need a higher power to help you. You don't need a sponsor. What you need is strength of mind, willpower and character. Alcoholism is not a disease. It's a failing. You've turned it into a church. You worship at the altar of self-pity. I come to these rooms for one reason. To remember what I don't want to become… Helpless, impotent and weak. Thank you. As you were. The whole time he's lecturing them, the 12-steppers keep looking at one another for support, some are rolling their eyes, hanging their heads down. Everything he said was dead-on and it's quite humorous to watch. It's a worthwhile scene to see if you can find it online on Youtube or whatever.

[CaptainCake]

*golf clap*

Well said, Don Leydecker.

[celticpride4Life]

*golf clap*

Well said, Don Leydecker.

Sick thread bump bad dude!

[lfsubstance22]

amen

[runthemachine]

"Alcoholism is not a disease. It's a failing."

Wow... guess I missed that before! Fucking spot-on!!!

Nice. No wonder I'm Wiccan.

Goddess empowers. She'd find me remiss if I decided one day to 'turn it all over to Her, and ask Her to remove my 'shortcomings'...'. WTF???

"It's a failing.". Classic.

Man-up, own your own shit, and OVERCOME your 'failings'. God ain't gonna 'take it away' from you.

Sweet.

[SubSucker]

Well said OP.

I got clean the first time around with NA/AA and I'll never knock it- it's just not my bag any more. Pun intended? Perhaps...

Once I got a year clean under my belt my whole take on meetings changed. I saw a cat with 8 years clean still whining about not getting a corner booth at the coffee shop but hey- "at least he didn't use". Whoa- something isn't right here! Is THAT who I wanted to be at 8 years clean? Addicted to meetings? World revolving around program functions ONLY? Nah. In fact FUCK nah... This was the same wife-beating jerk who chastised me for working the 13th step. Fuck it- me and the VERY-lucky lass stayed clean at least until I threw her cab fare around 5:00am... forgive me lovely ladies of Subsux - I was but a lad back then

I suppose in the zealot's mind I messed up after 18 years off dope because I "wasn't working the program" <endless echoes here for emphasis> but that's a whole 'nother topic for some other day. I have a much different theory. Things change and shit happens. LIFE and death happen and so do the best-laid plans of mice and men. Full stop. Some other time on all that noise...

I will say this to be fair as I'm a very fair laddy indeed- NA welcomed me at my worst and until personalities came before principles it worked for me. I learned a lot of good things- it was the kick in the ass that I needed at the time.

I'm all over the place in this post as I'm pretty mind-scrambled right now so I'll stop. Or will I?

It was the fact that AA/NA is NOT shoved down your throat here that made me comfortable enough to post. I'm an old fucker and I sure as hell don't need nor will I pay any mind to some 28 year old holier than thou twat telling me I MUST go to meetings to get clean and God forbid I blow a joint when I'm feeling better. I'm pretty sure I will but that remains to be seen.

It's was also important to me that there is not an anti-AA/NA agenda here either. The attitude seems to be "take it or leave it" and THAT is exactly what I needed.

I am grateful for my time way back when "in the program" and I'm grateful for this site, meaning the people behind the text on white, here too.

It's all good, no?

Hell yeah!

Hangin' tough and kickin' like a chicken *cluck cluck*

1.5 days clean Fuck YOU Freddy! And No- I DON'T need a meeting.

At least not just for today...


-SubSucker

[tw15t3d]

Well said!

[sublows]

Pretty much how I felt in every single NA meeting, and where did it land me? back on my ass because I am not the type of person to just quit and give up all hope and ambition to a "higher power" shit. I quit heroine CT and after that, around 4mg of suboxone, and you want to tell me that all that suffering was for no personal gain? I had no part in it, it wasnt my strength of mind it was a higher power. fuck no, where was the higher power during the bad times? inside me. Im no where near over this battle, but I feel alive again, but the boredom is ever nagging and I was considering going to NA just to pass the time. But this post reminded me that god did not help me beat the withdrawals, I did that, quitting on July 17 2012...My 20th birthday was the 19th. but I feel better than I ever had, im a college soccer player who lost a full ride scholarship to opiates, and I just dont have the time, energy, or desire to live my life around a fucking program, I still got big plans and a 5:30 meeting everyday just doesnt fit in the schedule. Thanks for the vent.
-Day 13 CLEAN.
P.S. This forum is, by a huge margin, the best thing for someone who has to live a life whie getting clean.

[cheeps]

Sub blows....start a thread, we'd like to hear about your struggles.....Happy Late Bday!!

[Poncho]

Pretty much how I felt in every single NA meeting, and where did it land me? back on my ass because I am not the type of person to just quit and give up all hope and ambition to a "higher power" shit. I quit heroine CT and after that, around 4mg of suboxone, and you want to tell me that all that suffering was for no personal gain? I had no part in it, it wasnt my strength of mind it was a higher power. fuck no, where was the higher power during the bad times? inside me. Im no where near over this battle, but I feel alive again, but the boredom is ever nagging and I was considering going to NA just to pass the time. But this post reminded me that god did not help me beat the withdrawals, I did that, quitting on July 17 2012...My 20th birthday was the 19th. but I feel better than I ever had, im a college soccer player who lost a full ride scholarship to opiates, and I just dont have the time, energy, or desire to live my life around a fucking program, I still got big plans and a 5:30 meeting everyday just doesnt fit in the schedule. Thanks for the vent.
-Day 13 CLEAN.
P.S. This forum is, by a huge margin, the best thing for someone who has to live a life whie getting clean.

Nice job !

[sublows]

Not really sure where I put it at, im not in as desperate a spot as some so I dont want to take up the space in War Stories. Im honestly feeling much better now, getting food down, working out again daily with the team. Lifes good right now and honestly, I was a sorry excuse for a human being even on Sub's which I thought didnt even get me high. I read these threads nearly everyday until I got going again and I just thought i'd add my $0.02 to the surviving without NA.

[cheeps]

Not really sure where I put it at, im not in as desperate a spot as some so I dont want to take up the space in War Stories. Im honestly feeling much better now, getting food down, working out again daily with the team. Lifes good right now and honestly, I was a sorry excuse for a human being even on Sub's which I thought didnt even get me high. I read these threads nearly everyday until I got going again and I just thought i'd add my $0.02 to the surviving without NA.

Every person who can get off opiates....can take up space. So many peeps need to hear that it can be done without being down for months or submitting to AA/NA.


Keep pushing through.