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arlenewla
Local Fixture
USA
2258 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2010 : 09:58:28 AM
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Thank you, L.
Dee...check in hun'. |
Arlene F.
Exodus from Slavery; 12-25-02 |
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abby25
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 07:45:57 AM
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since my post got deleted, wanted to say to dee--i think you are sincere and you do love your child just like any parent, addict or not. i'll wager most of the people here have children, have used when they were with their kids and have powerful cravings. having cravings is part of being an addict! doesn't mean you are a bad parent. so don't pay any attention to BS. i think you are doing good --i think age is a factor too--you look very young and i know i just wasn't ready to quit in my 20's or 30's--when you're young you think you can party forever and nothing bad will happen. you say "that hasn't happened YET". un fortunately, those "yets" will come true if you don't get clean. i found out the hard way. if someone would have told me what would happen to me when i was 21, i would have said they were crazy! i couldn't stop when my boys were little either, didn't mean i didn't love them. i had to work, being a single parent and i was terrified of w/d's. that was my main excuse--i had to be well to work. so, keep your chin up and just take the positive advice you get here and ignore the bs! |
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smelllibear
Member
USA
296 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 09:20:43 AM
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| being young has absultely nothing to do with it.....what about the young folks who dont touch an drug or opiate?......the young folks who make a life for themselves and whom dont party forever? the young folks who wait untill their 30s or mid 30s to have children and even get married?......the young folks who work hard in life and end up being managers of firms and earnign the respect of their family and communities......? what about the older folks who still do drugs ands opiates?........who still party...who are still single or single parents yet still behaving in an immoral way and even partying..neglecting their children......one cant use age as an excuse...if your mature enough your wise enough alebit 16 or 30 or 60.....one cant live in denial use excuses......sometimes youve made ya bed so have to lie in it......some folks are insecure and use opiates as to cover up those issues.....which can be understable but but many folks not just in our country but all over the world are far woser off then us but dont choose to do opiates or touch a drug......what you do iun your youth eco's in your adult life.....to get far in this life/world you need to be strong and kick some ass and not let kick you......you gotta be wise and have some self respect and not be so easily lead and gullible....so yeah age doesnt really come into it....its how your mind works...thank Lord i never been prison before and never became a single mother...i managed to control myself in that department....thank Lord am off everything now....and thanl lord for the support of him and my family.....i still own my own yard and do 2 jobs.....and am still not 30 yet...anyhows good luck in recovery folks but you gotta mean it and not play about....this goes for everyone...you only relapse if you want to period...... |
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arlenewla
Local Fixture
USA
2258 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 09:58:25 AM
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What I hear Abby saying is that in our teens & 20's, we feel immortal so therein, age is definitely a factor.
Hell, I felt immortal in my 30's (when I first began to use) never dreaming that all of those YETS would come to pass.
Getting clean for the "young-uns" is physically easier.
Staying clean is mentally harder.
Social environs are more than frequently based on drugging & certainly drinking. And while that maybe fine for those who can use/drink recreationally, it is not fine for those who are young, recovering addicts. |
Arlene F.
Exodus from Slavery; 12-25-02 |
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4jumper
Member
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:30:42 PM
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| This age is only number thing is a philosophy. The difference between being 30 and 50 is you are 20 years closer to being dead. That's a fact. The more time you spend on drug abuse in your life the less time you have to live life clean. The sooner you get off the better because this junk will tear your ass up. |
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abby25
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 2:29:49 PM
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| smelli, i was addressing dee, not you so can you please stay in the war zone where you belong? don't bother replying to any of my posts. |
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beachnut
Senior Member
USA
1400 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 7:11:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by smelllibear
being young has absultely nothing to do with it.....what about the young folks who dont touch an drug or opiate?......the young folks who make a life for themselves and whom dont party forever? the young folks who wait untill their 30s or mid 30s to have children and even get married?......the young folks who work hard in life and end up being managers of firms and earnign the respect of their family and communities......? what about the older folks who still do drugs ands opiates?........who still party...who are still single or single parents yet still behaving in an immoral way and even partying..neglecting their children......one cant use age as an excuse...if your mature enough your wise enough alebit 16 or 30 or 60.....one cant live in denial use excuses......sometimes youve made ya bed so have to lie in it......some folks are insecure and use opiates as to cover up those issues.....which can be understable but but many folks not just in our country but all over the world are far woser off then us but dont choose to do opiates or touch a drug......what you do iun your youth eco's in your adult life.....to get far in this life/world you need to be strong and kick some ass and not let kick you......you gotta be wise and have some self respect and not be so easily lead and gullible....so yeah age doesnt really come into it....its how your mind works...thank Lord i never been prison before and never became a single mother...i managed to control myself in that department....thank Lord am off everything now....and thanl lord for the support of him and my family.....i still own my own yard and do 2 jobs.....and am still not 30 yet...anyhows good luck in recovery folks but you gotta mean it and not play about....this goes for everyone...you only relapse if you want to period......
Have you ever heard the word "paragraph", or starting a sentence with capital letters.
You remind me of someone who use to post on ODR. Not that I can win a spelling bee, nor am I a writer. I did finish high school. Very difficult to read, then get angry that I put the effort out. |
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County10
New Member
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 10:40:53 AM
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I thought this was a support forum for people making the effort to get clean and stay clean. I know that tough love can be a good tool to use with addicts, but why the constant need to knock dee smellibear? You said you are clean now so you obviously know how hard it can be to achieve.
We are all trying to win our battle against addiction, some people are further along and having more success than others, but thats why forums like these are here, for people who are struggling to reach out for advice and support.
I hope all is well with you dee. |
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smelllibear
Member
USA
296 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 12:04:32 PM
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| I wasnt knocking anyone but just pointing out that you gotta WANT (clean) it... but to me it seems dee just wants to be told it will be alright so that gives some addicts an excuse to carry on indulging in addictive behaviour.....tough love is needed sometimes and not love of support which many addicts will abuse and take advantage of....its only so many times one can say they want to be clean yet same time want to score...its like a cycle that will keep happening if the addict keeps getting sympathy.....Being clean for a while and staying clean is a different issue where one does deserve some moral support.....this is just my opinion..... |
Edited by - smelllibear on 03/06/2010 12:28:26 PM |
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arlenewla
Local Fixture
USA
2258 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 12:37:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by smelllibear
I wasnt knocking anyone but just pointing out that you gotta WANT (clean) it... but to me it seems dee just wants to be told it will be alright so that gives some addicts an excuse to carry on indulging in addictive behaviour.....tough love is needed sometimes and not support of love...am sorry but thats just my opinion...
I don't necessarily disagree, Smelli.
However...and its a big one....its not just what is said, its how its said. Its not necessarily about the message...its also about the messenger.
Take it from one who believes in both warmth AND tough love. I think both are true.
I also believe that for those of us who are already clean, its on us to REMEMBER what its like. And for me, the longer my recovery continues, it is easy to forget in that my instincts are honed on bullshit....the SAME bullshit thinking that I was so invested in 7+ years ago.
I've GOT to remember what it feels like to be a newcomer....so lost...so much self-loathing and so much fear. I've GOT to remember what its like to feel hopeless.
I BOTH do this for the new member AND I do it for myself. Again, both would be true.
Now, I will also freely admit that when I see an old member...chronically relapsing...I will change my approach. Tough love becoming more apparent. If I continue with the same approach utilized with a newbie, that's not love. Rather, its enabling. That's harmful.
Make sense? |
Arlene F.
Exodus from Slavery; 12-25-02 |
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4jumper
Member
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 12:52:24 PM
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| I agree 2, 3, or 4 weeks post use, you gotta have sympathy. You are so physically, chemically, and emotionally screwed up without your dope any additional negative energy can't be a help whatsoever. When you are in withdrawal you can't start kicking somebody and telling them they are a fuck up. They already know it deep inside it's why they got off in the first place. Now someone who's been in the same cycle time after time, some tough love would be appropriate, but it wouldn't be the first tool in the box to get out and hit someone over the head with. I'd take some dope run and hide and forget about it. |
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arlenewla
Local Fixture
USA
2258 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 2:19:20 PM
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Emotions play a huge factor here. I actually believe far more so than the physical. Drugs always work to cover emotions (ya think?)...'til they don't and that's when we're stewed, screwed & tattooed.
I've witnessed a lot addicts get clean and then, in very short order, be hit by depression and another wave of overwhelming sense of hopeless.
On the first issue of depression....to date, I have never met a newly clean addict/alcohol (from any drug) who is not depressed. I was too. Why wouldn't we be? We've lost a lover...its a mourning period. Unfortunately, for many, the kneejerk reaction seems to be to take yet another pill in the form of an AD. Me...I ate chocolate.
Introducing AD's impedes the process. Disinhibits the body & mind to find its own reset...its own baseline. The question for me would be, am I feeeeeling better because of the psychotropic or what?
The second wave of hopeless for many a newly clean addict/alcoholic is that moment of painful acknowledgement that we don't know how live without drugs in the mix. Being uncomfortable in our skin...the skin that is now really ours and not some drug. That we have to once again relearn the ways of just "being."
Its the good news/bad news scenario of being clean.
Whats the good news? You're clean
What's the bad news? You're clean and have lots of feeeeeeelings.
Its the feeeelings (not the drugs) that take us out. Its the thinking (not the drugs)that take us out.
One of the aspects of posting on the internet that has always troubled me personally is the way in which something I've written looks, on first blush, as very harsh. The internet provides for no tone of voice, no body language, no hugs or a touch on the hand, no smiles nor tears for me, as the supporter & advice giver. Then I come off as self-righteous. For me, as a fellow addict whose been around the block, I want nothing more than to impart experience, strength & hope.
I'm blunt & make no bones about. I'm blunt because I never want to see a new member get to the point of where I was after 22 years of denial & bullshitting myself. Anything that would keep my lie going was where I was at. Major distortion of perception going on....almost resulting in death.
Then came the painful moment of truth. Everyone & everything gone.
And that's why I have a seemingly short tolerance for woojie woojie. Milk & cookies are fine & much needed at the beginning, but then it gets old. I think its about meeting each individual where they're at....and that's time & situation dependent.
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Arlene F.
Exodus from Slavery; 12-25-02 |
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cali
Jr. Member
153 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 4:29:39 PM
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Dee, Ive read Arlene's posts for a few years now on different forums. And because Ive followed her posts, I have really gotten a sense of who she is as best I can from an internet board. Recently I reached out to her a couple of times via phone and she was gracious enough to take the time (hours in total) to talk to me about some personal issues and struggles I had/have been having. I can tell you that she is one of the most genuine people you will ever meet. She really does care about people and it is true, she may come across stern at times on a forum but she is a very warm person in real life. Speaking from her expierences and sober time, her suggestions, for me, are worth their weight in gold.
Ive been following your story, and as a mom, I know how hard it is to be a mom and get and stay C&S. It will absolutely be the best decision you will ever make for yourself and your family, Dee.
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arlenewla
Local Fixture
USA
2258 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 6:02:01 PM
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| Dee...where are you hun'?? Checkin plz. |
Arlene F.
Exodus from Slavery; 12-25-02 |
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BOAG
Senior Member
Vatican City
1063 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 6:35:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by arlenewla
Introducing AD's impedes the process.
That's rather a blanket statement, and I honestly don't know if it is true or not.
I agree, 99.9999999% of long term opiate addicts are depressed as hell when their Precious is thrown out. And I don't think the short term answer is antidepressants.
But, here's what I'm a'wonderin'...
I lived in The Black Hole for the first 6 months after I got clean, and it just didn't get any better. I was seeing a therapist and an addictionologist at the time (no, I wasn't on sub), and was finally convinced that I really did need/could benefit from antidepressants. It certainly was no magic pill, but yes, it really did help with the depression. Stayed on them for ~1 yr, then took myself off of them, with no residual depression issues.
So, I'm wondering if going on anitdepressants earlier may have been beneficial. Earlier as in 2 months post detox? 3 months? 4 months? I really don't know. There probably isn't one right answer.
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"If for kindness you'd substitute blindness, please open your eyes."
Martin L. Gore |
Edited by - BOAG on 03/09/2010 6:37:52 PM |
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smelllibear
Member
USA
296 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 10:56:08 AM
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| Anti-depressents dont do anything for post-opiate withdrawals depression espeacially methadone and suboxone withdrawals if youve been on it for a long time......many folks have tried to use SRRIs only to realize they make things worse if not do anything......time is really the only cure and as loads of folks say cardio aka excercise.....just getting off your butt is the hard part..... |
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beachnut
Senior Member
USA
1400 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 5:00:32 PM
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I have to speak up about antidepressant here a bit. Once I got thru the wd from sub I was in a very dark place that even after 8 mo's I could only say worsen. I was near suicide, planned and ready/willing to carry out. I couldn't see going back to doping again (though I did for short time) as that was not living. I did take very drastic measures to get out of the dark place that I was in. I took Iboga that also acts as a anti-depressant I understand. IT did lift the darkness for me long enough to get moving again.
I wonder if it was ness. to go to such extreme measures as Iboga. I wonder at times if I would of just given in and took antidepressants that my life would of improved. I am not sorry that I did go the route of Iboga... but I would not throw out the ideal of antidepressant after a certain time has pass from wd. I was stubborn and made a pack with myself no cushions for one yr. I had a hard time breaking it.
Its normal and I always have gone thru a time of depression after a wd. I was clean for 4 yrs once and I do remember being depressed for a few months after I got clean. It did lift as I promise myself a life long dream trip out to sea if I stayed clean one yr. I think having that goal did help me get moving again. The closer I got to the one yr mark the more excited I got about leaving the states on a small boat.
I guess bottom line is that if one gets to the point of dangerous behavior/thinking after lets say 6-8mo then it may be time to look into another ave. for help. If I had to do over... in retrospect, I needed help. If I would of taken advice of others and took antifuckets I may have improved. Basically I did get the same affect from iboga.
Don't get me wrong... I am glad I went the Iboga route. It has open doors for me, I learned more about myself, better understanding of why dope plagued me so long. Got the benefits of no cravings, not feeling hungry for dope. But for those that would not consider Iboga or poor health then maybe its ness. to use antidepressants. Better that then death/doping or resignation of an active life. I nearly died being stubborn and not accepting the fact that I needed help. I am surprised that I actually accepted the Iboga other then it was new to me, different than what the norm was and liked the thought of hallucinogenic episode. I was attracted to the ideal of getting insight. I knew if things didnt change for me I always had the option of death. |
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Jay
Advanced Member
USA
634 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2010 : 04:02:24 AM
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| xDeex.....how are you doing? |
"The meaning of life is to live a life of meaning." |
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xDeex
Member
United Kingdom
262 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 06:01:17 AM
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SB. Sorry but you have it very wrong. I am not looking for an excuse to use. Quite the opposite. I was just sharing my cravings, which is natural.
Anyway moving on.
I am doing good, I am getting to the stage where I feel more in control of the cravings. I have walked away from them. I know my pattern. I have huge cravings at first then the get less and less where I am in control of myself, more then the drugs being in control of me (like most I guess)
I have been doing alot of thinking about what I want to do with me life.
I know I am not happy in this town & I am planning to go back to a city I used to live in, where one of my sisters is also. There is nothing here for me at all. Nothing but sad memoeries, and a whole heap of drug users I know. I can't keep fucking up like I keep doing.
I need a fresh start!
I can't wait to be off this god dam methadone. I am so tired of it. I need to wake up and feel fresh, not this gross shit i have to deal with atm.
Do I think age is factor? I am not sure. I am 27 this yr and all I do know is that I don't want to hit 30 & still be saying the same shit I am now.
Hope everyone is doing good. Thanks for all the reply's. |
I wanna be free. |
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joe
Jr. Member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 08:59:24 AM
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| Hey xdeex--------I did methadone for 7 years and really did need it to be normal for work as I have a family and was recovering from 2 back surgerys --lots of pain-- all I want to say is everything I have read here --peeps say it different for everyone when Jumping---being young should help but many other factors will play a roll--------Goodluck! and Godspeed to getting clean! |
Last 1mg of sub morning of Feb 14 2010 |
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hattrik
Member
350 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 10:50:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by xDeex
SB. Sorry but you have it very wrong. I am not looking for an excuse to use. Quite the opposite. I was just sharing my cravings, which is natural.
Anyway moving on.
I am doing good, I am getting to the stage where I feel more in control of the cravings. I have walked away from them. I know my pattern. I have huge cravings at first then the get less and less where I am in control of myself, more then the drugs being in control of me (like most I guess)
I have been doing alot of thinking about what I want to do with me life.
I know I am not happy in this town & I am planning to go back to a city I used to live in, where one of my sisters is also. There is nothing here for me at all. Nothing but sad memoeries, and a whole heap of drug users I know. I can't keep fucking up like I keep doing.
I need a fresh start!
I can't wait to be off this god dam methadone. I am so tired of it. I need to wake up and feel fresh, not this gross shit i have to deal with atm.
Do I think age is factor? I am not sure. I am 27 this yr and all I do know is that I don't want to hit 30 & still be saying the same shit I am now.Hope everyone is doing good. Thanks for all the reply's.
HeyDeex....That is all well and good, BUT, i mean, Thinking bout your life, lying to yourself that you are " controlling" drug cravings....thinking moving is going to change or fix you are all kinda circular Xdee. I mean, in order to change, something has to change. I mean, you can sweat turning 30 with the lifestyle you h ave till you turn 40!! NO shit. Addiction will take and take and take from you. ALl your years, all the goodness in life, everything.
WE LIE TO OURSELVES DEEX. That is what addicts tend to do. The only way I was able to get out of active addiction was to take action..Thinkin bout it ain't going to change anything. Make a plan for recovery. YOu say you have the cravings under control..I am thinking that is bullshit cuz you are using every single day right? Methadone at a minimum ya? I ain't bashin ya, jsut trying to show you how we lie to ourselves..
Make a plan, rehab, out patient, meetings, counselor..something. For all these years you have made the plan for you. Now is the time to get some help..thinking that you somehow are going to save you from drug addiction is not reasonable. YOu have never been able to in the past..All the sincerity in the world failed to be sufficient to keep me clean. I need/ed help ...there is tons of help availaible
Good to see you here.....Keep posting. I don't intend to be harsh at all. Your post is just full of self fulfilling bullshit. I been there too many times to count. Hopefully your road doesn't have to be as long as mine was.
A line I have come to like is " in order to stop doing drugs, we have to stop doing drugs" TRUTH. Life begins from there.
You wrote " I want to be free" I believe you, what are you willing to do to accomplish that? |
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arlenewla
Local Fixture
USA
2258 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 10:58:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hattrik
The only way I was able to get out of active addiction was to take action..Thinkin bout it ain't going to change anything.
That.
Don't think...do. |
Arlene F.
Exodus from Slavery; 12-25-02 |
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xDeex
Member
United Kingdom
262 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 11:51:21 AM
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Yes I guess your right! I guess all I am trying to do is run away.
This is honestly how I feel right now.
I feel like this town is so depressing, and so full of shit its unreal. Its like I have no great motivation here. Its all well not using now but yes I am scared as hell that it won't last. I don't want to be like this. I have all the dreams of how I wanna be, yet why can't I god dam do it. Yer I guess I am full of bullshit, I am so fed up you know. The only thing that keeps me going is my kids you know.
I'm talking shit now and tbh quite upset am gonna shoot off. I bet I make no sense. I don't understand myself half the time. |
I wanna be free. |
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xDeex
Member
United Kingdom
262 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 12:00:40 PM
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God I am pathetic I know.
I am going to take a while to think & come up with a REAL plan of action. I need to stop feeling sorry for myself, and start doing, isead of just thinking & saying. |
I wanna be free. |
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arlenewla
Local Fixture
USA
2258 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 12:01:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by xDeex
Yes I guess your right! I guess all I am trying to do is run away.
When I attempt to run from my problems, I have to remember that I take myself with me.
quote:
Its like I have no great motivation here.
The only thing that keeps me going is my kids you know.
Therein lies the greatest of motivations.
Hun'...intent, goals, dreams are wonderful things AND you've got to focus on the here and now.
Where are you on the Methadone...what dose and how goes a taper? |
Arlene F.
Exodus from Slavery; 12-25-02 |
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Why did I do it?
